Wednesday, October 29, 2008

Unfaithfulness, pt. 2...

A couple of people have suggested to me that this blog (and others of a similar ilk, I'm sure) really ignites with interest only when the topic of relationships is raised, and preferably in a manner that depicts some wrong-doing on the part of one who is involved. Given the barrage of comments to yesterday's posting, I'm convinced that they were entirely correct.

Maybe the comments are borne out of some unsavoury memory, or maybe we just like to defend and uphold the rights of the wronged party.

During the course of yesterday I also received a number of e-mails regarding the posting, one of which came from Sue. It's not good practice to reproduce such an e-mail in a posting like this, but I discussed it with Sue and she agreed to let me pass on some of her comments which you may agree make for interesting reading:

"As a couples counsellor and sex therapist I sadly see many couples and individuals who are facing the turmoil that infidelity brings in the same way that your friend Jen currently is.

Firstly, can I address the subject of “looking for signs” of infidelity?

In the early stages of a relationship there is invariably tremendous uncertainty; as your feelings start to grow for your partner the realisation sets in that they may be gaining the capacity to hurt you deeply. An obvious “check” that people make in this regard is “is she/he cheating on me?” It is completely normal to ask this question, but never forget that many “signs” of infidelity will not necessarily be all that they appear.

Take the champagne glasses, for example. There could be all sorts of reasons why they were in his dishwasher, and none of them connected to him having another woman to stay the night. They are circumstantial, not conclusive, evidence.

That said, the “intuition” you speak of is valid, but it is usually picking up on your partner’s behaviour and any very slight changes that will alert you to the fact that she/he may be cheating rather than suggestive signs such as champagne glasses in a dishwasher."


This is such a valid point. I know from experience that the desire to not get hurt within a new and untested relationship can drive you to the point of distraction. Sometimes you don't even need the "signs" Sue speaks of; you can invent them using your over-active and fertile imagination, i.e. "why hasn't he rung? I expect he's out for dinner with another woman. That has to be the reason, because he always rings me....."

It's like pulling at a loose thread. Once you start on that track, it is well nigh impossible to stop.

Of course, there is a world of difference between unreasonable conjecture, and knowing the signs are there and choosing to do nothing about them, both of which I have been guilty of so I speak from a position of experience.

I discussed with another friend yesterday Jen's point about him hiding his mobile phone. My friend commented that it was overly secretive and suspicious.

When I mentioned that I always have my phone on silent and keep it tucked away in my handbag when I see my man because I don't want us to be disturbed, he commented "that's just being courteous"

Where's the difference? You see my point?

Sue went on to comment:

"I completely understand why you reacted as you did given your friend’s predicament, and the three options are possibly valid where self-protection for the innocent party is paramount, save for option three which I believe would do none of the parties involved any favours in the long run (unless Jen terminates the relationship first)

I would, however, like to echo one of the comments left by Veronica; cheating is all about power.

Your friend appears to have an understanding of why her partner may be cheating on her. In this instance, she may want to consider perhaps helping him work towards the empowerment Veronica speaks of, i.e. feeling secure, comfortable and invigorated in the relationship, rather than embarking on a course of action that will possibly send him into more destructive behaviour. She should only do this, of course, if she believes the relationship is worth her further investment."


This, I suspect, will cause a huge intake of breath......!

But Sue is entirely right. If you love someone (and I mean not just "like them a lot") then you will want them to feel amazingly happy and safe with you. To me that is what love is; it's about giving with no regard for what you may or may not get back.

Almost certainly many will see this as acting like the proverbial doormat, others will think it shows strength, fortitude and character. I opt for the latter.

Thirteen years ago I found out my then boyfriend was cheating and it sent me to a place I never want to go back to; I was totally distraught for days. But at thirty-two I only saw the rejection, and I firmly believed it was my fault. Ignoring the "signs" gave me what I wanted; a few more days or weeks successfully kidding myself that we were "OK". At thirty-two you can afford to throw a few more logs of pointless hope onto the fire of your dreams.

At forty-five I see things very differently. I see that I should never have got involved with him in the first place for one, but secondly I see that knee-jerk responses to the subject of infidelity are inappropriate in certain cases, yet at the same time entirely understandable.

For the record, I still have my doubts about Ben, but I do now see this from both sides of the coin. If he makes my friend happy and he is prepared to embark on the long haul with her to reset the foundations of their relationship, then he may be not so bad after all.

The wrath of the coven isn't so hideous, is it? ;-)

36 comments:

Anonymous said...

It takes a very rare person to support and stand by someone once they've cheated, and I can't help thinking he will see it as a green light to do it again and be forgiven again.
And again. And again.

Anonymous said...

It nice everyone is rallying around this bloke to make him feel "more secure" but he hasn't actually made any effort at all from where I'm standing.
Great work- everyone now feels sorry for him, and his woman has to do the lion's share of the work to make get things back on course!

Anonymous said...

You can get beyond betrayal. No-one is saying it is easy, and for most people it would be impossible.
If you are committed to someone then you owe them the chance to help put things right.

Anonymous said...

I helped a friend when her husband cheated on her. We sat up late at night talking and crying- it was so stressful but she and her husband got through it.

Then two months later I found out my husband had started an affair with a barmaid while this was going on.

His response was "you had no time for me".

Men are babies. I found out the hard way why some men like to pay women to let them wear a gigantic nappy, they should all wear them.

Anonymous said...

You ignore a man and he will stray. First rule of the jungle, I'm sad to say.

Anonymous said...

Sorry but that is cr*p.

Here we all go, generalising again.

Not all men will stray, for G*d's sake!

Anonymous said...

Of course men don't all stray if left alone- Well said, Dan

I was apart from my wife for six months when she nursed her mother in Ireland shortly before we lost her and I never gave any thought to straying.

There are too many bitter and twisted people on this site who sound like they need to either get some therapy or just keep quiet.

Anonymous said...

My husband works in the oil industry and is away 8 months of the year.
We are like honeymooners when he is home, and when he is away we send silly messages to each other and have late night phone calls to keep the excitement going.
I am sure he has never strayed, and I have never given it a thought either. What we have is too precious.

Anonymous said...

I said if you ignore a man, he will stray.
You can ignore him sitting next to you- being hundreds of miles away is of no significance.

Anonymous said...

Just trying to work out what gender "commonsenserules" is.....

If she is a "she", I'm guessing she does the dance of the seven veils every night for her bloke, followed by serving up his favourite meal wearing nothing but heels and a smile and finishing off by sitting him in front of the TV to watch some porn.

If he's a bloke, he probably shouldn't be let any where near a woman until around 2038.

Anonymous said...

LOL Dan- and so say all of us :-D

Anonymous said...

That's brilliant- had me falling off my chair
Absolute quality

Anonymous said...

What difference does it make whether I am a man or a woman?
You know I'm right and pretending you're all so alpha makes no difference.

Anonymous said...

Def a woman

Anonymous said...

LOL yes- deinitely female

Anonymous said...

Well, cuss me for trying to be more alpha!

Take a look at the comments on this blog- loads are from men.
Do you think that's because we think she might start the dirty talk on the next page? Or maybe, just maybe, we'd like to understand a little more about what makes women tick?

Is that alpha enough for you?

Anonymous said...

Ditto to all the above, Dan.

Well said my man.

Anonymous said...

I can see her in a nazi uniform...and not in a good way

debsylee said...

OK chaps, can we take it down a notch or two here?

We're all entitled to have an opinion but can we play nicely, please?

Anonymous said...

Was it the reference to porn? ;-)

Anonymous said...

If your man strays I recommend a good piece of twine.

This normally saves any nasty repetitions.

Anonymous said...

A friend of mine employed a very tasty 20 year old male gardener after she found out her husband was sleeping with his secretary.

We all spent many a happy afternoon watching him prune and dig.

The secretary mysteriously had to resign a couple of months later and now husband works from home two days a week.......

Anonymous said...

Debs, this is the funniest thing I have seen on the net for ages.

I had no idea you were a mini-celeb! Careful girl, much more of this and you'll be coerced into doing Hello.

I also had no idea that you can write....you are such a dark horse. What other talents are you keeping hidden that we don't know about? LOL

How is life in Lincolnshire? I hear on the grapevine that you are quite smitten with your Mr Big...

Anonymous said...

Why women get so bunched up about their men straying beats me.

If my fella so much as looks in the general direction of another woman I tell him sex is off the menu until I decide it should go back on.

Trust me, when they think there may be a bedroom drought they soon start to retrain their vision.

Anonymous said...

There are websites that specialise in the type of humiliation you're talking about.

Are you for real? Banning sex if he looks at another woman?

Tell me this is all part of some little playtime fun you have going on....please.

Anonymous said...

What I love about these postings are that they display really well how enduring, powerful and supportive womens friendships are.

As a bloke it makes me quite jealous; all I discuss with my mates is work, football and cars.

Blimey, does this mean I have a feminine side? lol

Anonymous said...

Here's hoping your friend Jen sorts things out with her beau; I wish them well.

How are things with you and your man? Pray tell- you've gone awfulky quiet on the subject

Anonymous said...

Yeah! Are you still an item?

Anonymous said...

Definitely still an item, otherwise she wouldn't be writing so freely and without bias. These are not the words of a girl in torment.

I suspect some pact has been hatched to not discuss their relationship on here.

And who can blame them?

Anonymous said...

I don't think they are together any more she was so into him and now nothing

Anonymous said...

No way- she is keeping quiet about there relationship

Anonymous said...

I agree, they have split. No one can go from talking the way she did to not at all. I think she met someone else on saturday cos she said she was happy , that sounds like a new guy to me

Anonymous said...

I'm happy to take bets on this one- they are definitely still an item.

Anonymous said...

She is still shining in my eyes. If he is still with her then her writing is even better so he'd better carry on doing whatever it is he does :-O

Anonymous said...

I say no guy, he is out-of-there

Anonymous said...

Do you think?

I was kind of hoping they were still together.